What? Uptowner Monthly Pinball Tournament
Where? The Uptowner (1032 E Center St Milwaukee, WI 53212)
When? November 20th at 7PM
Format? Single- or Double-Elimination, depending upon number of people that show up. Format subject to change.
Cost? Quarters only (50 cents per credit)
Prizes? Beer from Lakefront Brewery, prizes from local businesses and Stern, and more! WPPR points awarded to all players.
Lineup: Medieval Madness, FunHouse, Guns & Roses
UPDATE: Due to a memorial potluck that is being held for a recently passed patron at Uptowner starting at 8PM, please arrive as close to 7PM as possible. We (Michelle and I) would like to limit the amount of overlap the tournament will have with the memorial potluck. Thanks for your understanding!
November 20th - Uptowner Tournament (IFPA) UPDATE
Re: November 20th - Uptowner Tournament (IFPA) UPDATE
Hey Jon,
Had a good time at this last night! Thanks for putting it on. Dragging a little after not getting back till midnight >> I am old...
I'd love to see the final filled out bracket if you get a chance. I am still completely confused on how the brackalope software works. Is it also available for free somewhere? CPU based or just tablet?
thanks again. I am very jealous of all the awesome route games and great community of route players you have over in MKE. Very nice group of people!
Had a good time at this last night! Thanks for putting it on. Dragging a little after not getting back till midnight >> I am old...
I'd love to see the final filled out bracket if you get a chance. I am still completely confused on how the brackalope software works. Is it also available for free somewhere? CPU based or just tablet?
thanks again. I am very jealous of all the awesome route games and great community of route players you have over in MKE. Very nice group of people!
Re: November 20th - Uptowner Tournament (IFPA) UPDATE
Final bracket results are here: http://live.brackelope.com/t/umjcl/
Brackelope (http://brackelope.com/) is an iOS app for running double/single elimination or knockout tournaments. It was designed by some pinball people from Seattle(?). The tool is very well written and easy to use. Free version supports 128 players and single elimination. Paid version ($10 - sales are notified on FB) adds double elimination and other stuff.
TBH, I don't really care for the elimination or knockout formats, but the tool makes running the tournament like clockwork. You really can't screw up anything - the app just tells you what to do. It even supports game failures (we were able to disable Funhouse and it moved all matches off it). It does not support removing players after the tourney starts though. If you're playing at a venue with a good Internet connection, the app can push tournament status updates to a web page so that people can lookup what's going on with their mobile device. And it has an email results option, so with three taps and an email address your results are sent to Josh Sharpe. It's slick.
I'm glad you had fun last night! If a tournament isn't fun, we need to fix it. We typically end about 30mins to an hour earlier than when you left last night.
The route community you saw last night is quite new here in Milwaukee. Organized events started in June 2012. It's a great group of people, that are becoming more connected each month. Goal to keep it open to newcomers, and I think we're meeting that goal. Keeping cost of entry low with quarters only and donated prizes, Facebook promotion, the SkillShot Zine. Those methods seem to be quite effective.
Hope to see you and Ken at Finks next month! The format we use at Finks is a variation on Herb style that is a lot of fun and extremely social, but without the weeping and gnashing of teeth. I'd love to get your feedback on it.
Brackelope (http://brackelope.com/) is an iOS app for running double/single elimination or knockout tournaments. It was designed by some pinball people from Seattle(?). The tool is very well written and easy to use. Free version supports 128 players and single elimination. Paid version ($10 - sales are notified on FB) adds double elimination and other stuff.
TBH, I don't really care for the elimination or knockout formats, but the tool makes running the tournament like clockwork. You really can't screw up anything - the app just tells you what to do. It even supports game failures (we were able to disable Funhouse and it moved all matches off it). It does not support removing players after the tourney starts though. If you're playing at a venue with a good Internet connection, the app can push tournament status updates to a web page so that people can lookup what's going on with their mobile device. And it has an email results option, so with three taps and an email address your results are sent to Josh Sharpe. It's slick.
I'm glad you had fun last night! If a tournament isn't fun, we need to fix it. We typically end about 30mins to an hour earlier than when you left last night.
The route community you saw last night is quite new here in Milwaukee. Organized events started in June 2012. It's a great group of people, that are becoming more connected each month. Goal to keep it open to newcomers, and I think we're meeting that goal. Keeping cost of entry low with quarters only and donated prizes, Facebook promotion, the SkillShot Zine. Those methods seem to be quite effective.
Hope to see you and Ken at Finks next month! The format we use at Finks is a variation on Herb style that is a lot of fun and extremely social, but without the weeping and gnashing of teeth. I'd love to get your feedback on it.
Re: November 20th - Uptowner Tournament (IFPA) UPDATE
Thanks for all the info.
Looks like a pretty slick software. I will need to get the wife's ipad and download to play with it.
A few things I can't seem to understand>>>
One thing I still can't figure out is how it decides who plays who >> for example there were 23? people who played but it looks like only 14 played in round 1? Along these lines, I won my first game in round 1 and then I went on to play Ian on a second game even through he had not played a first game. With a double elimination format this seems to put some people at a disadvantage.
As an example I will use myself and you.
I won Game 1 and Game 2, then lost game 3 and game 4. I ended up in four-way tie for 9th place.
Inversely, You won Game 1 and Game 2, then lost game 3 and game 4. You ended up in two-way tie for 5th.
It seems like this all stems from the system having you start in the winners bracket after Round 1 of games and I started in round 1 and had to win my way out.
please note > I am using us as an easy example and just pointing out something I percieve as not clear and possibly unfair with how the software works.
In my understanding of double elimination tournaments with 23 people, everyone would play in the first round (1 person randomly would be drawn to get a buy). 12 people would go on to round 2. 6 people on to round 3. etc... with losers filtering into the consilation bracket as they lose. The winner of the consilation bracket would come back in to the winners bracket at some point (typically at the end but sometimes a round prior to the end).
Looks like a pretty slick software. I will need to get the wife's ipad and download to play with it.
A few things I can't seem to understand>>>
One thing I still can't figure out is how it decides who plays who >> for example there were 23? people who played but it looks like only 14 played in round 1? Along these lines, I won my first game in round 1 and then I went on to play Ian on a second game even through he had not played a first game. With a double elimination format this seems to put some people at a disadvantage.
As an example I will use myself and you.
I won Game 1 and Game 2, then lost game 3 and game 4. I ended up in four-way tie for 9th place.
Inversely, You won Game 1 and Game 2, then lost game 3 and game 4. You ended up in two-way tie for 5th.
It seems like this all stems from the system having you start in the winners bracket after Round 1 of games and I started in round 1 and had to win my way out.
please note > I am using us as an easy example and just pointing out something I percieve as not clear and possibly unfair with how the software works.
In my understanding of double elimination tournaments with 23 people, everyone would play in the first round (1 person randomly would be drawn to get a buy). 12 people would go on to round 2. 6 people on to round 3. etc... with losers filtering into the consilation bracket as they lose. The winner of the consilation bracket would come back in to the winners bracket at some point (typically at the end but sometimes a round prior to the end).
Re: November 20th - Uptowner Tournament (IFPA) UPDATE
My only rec from last night is that there was a bit too much waiting around vs. playing.
Below are my thoughts and I will appologize up front as I am really bad at giving feedback and saying things in a good way even though that is my intent. Please read all of this as that of an oppinoinated asshole that is actually a very nice guy and is not good with words. I think you know me well enough in real life now to know this is just me giving feedback. I am happy to just be able to play in any event and everything you have done over there is AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My personal preference for a place with 3 games and 20plus people would be a format where everyone plays each game 1 time at teh start.
For an added twist, after all 23 people play through each game, they all get a chance to replay a single game and keep the higher of their two scores on that game. This will take approximately 2hours (maybe 2.5) if people are playing 1 player games (swithcing players wastes time). The benefit here is you get to play a game of pinball every 30-40 minutes rather than long strectches of just waiting around (although that is also part fo the fun> talking to others; but it could happen while waiting in line).
These 'qualifying' games get used to make a reduced single elimination playoff bracket.
2 easy ways to do this.
1 >Take the top 4 scores on each game and those people make a 12 person playoff (likely less than 12 since some poeple will have high scores on multiple games).
2> Rank scores on each game and use IFPA software? style ranking points of 100, 90, 85, 84, 83, etc. Top 12 ranked people make playoffs
Playoffs >>>
Random draw for game, 4player games with inverse seeding, top 2 from each round go on.
12 narrows to 6. Next round is 3 player games on 2 machines and top 2 go on for the final round. Final round is a 4 player game.
Benfits of this style >>
The gaurantees atleast 3 games of pinball to even the worse player and after 2 hours they know if they are in or out. This quickly defines the best 12 and since they will be more competitive typically, they are happy to stick around longer for playoff bracket. Playoff will take only 1 to 1.5 hours so even if you get knocked out then you can hang around, drink, and watch with the ability to play pinaball after competition is all done.
Side note > I prefer to not allow people already knocked out to play casual games for fun while competition is still going on.
Below are my thoughts and I will appologize up front as I am really bad at giving feedback and saying things in a good way even though that is my intent. Please read all of this as that of an oppinoinated asshole that is actually a very nice guy and is not good with words. I think you know me well enough in real life now to know this is just me giving feedback. I am happy to just be able to play in any event and everything you have done over there is AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My personal preference for a place with 3 games and 20plus people would be a format where everyone plays each game 1 time at teh start.
For an added twist, after all 23 people play through each game, they all get a chance to replay a single game and keep the higher of their two scores on that game. This will take approximately 2hours (maybe 2.5) if people are playing 1 player games (swithcing players wastes time). The benefit here is you get to play a game of pinball every 30-40 minutes rather than long strectches of just waiting around (although that is also part fo the fun> talking to others; but it could happen while waiting in line).
These 'qualifying' games get used to make a reduced single elimination playoff bracket.
2 easy ways to do this.
1 >Take the top 4 scores on each game and those people make a 12 person playoff (likely less than 12 since some poeple will have high scores on multiple games).
2> Rank scores on each game and use IFPA software? style ranking points of 100, 90, 85, 84, 83, etc. Top 12 ranked people make playoffs
Playoffs >>>
Random draw for game, 4player games with inverse seeding, top 2 from each round go on.
12 narrows to 6. Next round is 3 player games on 2 machines and top 2 go on for the final round. Final round is a 4 player game.
Benfits of this style >>
The gaurantees atleast 3 games of pinball to even the worse player and after 2 hours they know if they are in or out. This quickly defines the best 12 and since they will be more competitive typically, they are happy to stick around longer for playoff bracket. Playoff will take only 1 to 1.5 hours so even if you get knocked out then you can hang around, drink, and watch with the ability to play pinaball after competition is all done.
Side note > I prefer to not allow people already knocked out to play casual games for fun while competition is still going on.
Re: November 20th - Uptowner Tournament (IFPA) UPDATE
Thanks for the feedback! We'll take it under consideration and investigation.
We're planning on changing stuff at Uptowner for January.
My comments:
- That's the biggest turnout we've had for that tournament so far.
- We had Funhouse malfunction twice - its been in our tournaments for the last 5 months with no stuck balls until yesterday. First time we've had a malfunction in 5 months.
- This was Michelle's first time running the tournament herself. Considering the above, she did her best.
We're planning on changing stuff at Uptowner for January.
My comments:
- That's the biggest turnout we've had for that tournament so far.
- We had Funhouse malfunction twice - its been in our tournaments for the last 5 months with no stuck balls until yesterday. First time we've had a malfunction in 5 months.
- This was Michelle's first time running the tournament herself. Considering the above, she did her best.
Re: November 20th - Uptowner Tournament (IFPA) UPDATE
Hey Hilton,
Wanted to address with a bit more detail your feedback, now that I've had time to dig into it a bit deeper.
I'll be honest with you: I don't like elimination tourneys. It's a most annoying thing to drive 2 hours through Chicago rush hour traffic (or Milwaukee's growing traffic problem for that matter) to show up at a tournament, get eliminated in the first round and drive all the way back, which has happened to me about 3-4 times. I don't want to put anyone else through that kind of experience. I'm pleased that Michelle and I we were able to provide you and Ken a better experience on Wednesday than I've received at the monthly tournaments in Chicago.
When we first started doing the tournaments in June this year, I didn't have confidence in how to run a round-robin IFPA tournament to my satisfaction (I stuck with what worked down in Chicago - Enchanted and Gameworks use Brackelope - "can't get fired for buying IBM"), but I've built up experience with round-robin in the last few months and have a spreadsheet that works pretty well for running things in LibreOffice Calc. New tooling = new options. My experience has shown that its considerably more fun, and completes in a similar, if not shorter, timeframe.
I'm planning a meeting with Michelle in the next month to talk about efforts for Jan - June next year, and that will be on the agenda.
--------------------------------------
I've been reading resources that talk about tournament management and directing decisions, especially for single-elimination, single-round tournaments. The PAPA website has very little - it's mostly about running PAPA circuit events. David Sirlin's Playing to Win book (http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/), which was written with Super Street Fighter II Turbo and the Evolution fighting series in mind, has been helpful, especially with his critiques of Olympic tennis bracket seeding.
Wanted to address with a bit more detail your feedback, now that I've had time to dig into it a bit deeper.
The random seeding does seem to put certain players at a disadvantage. The way those slots got seeded, it does seem unfair - Paul got last, even though he had 1 win. I'll have to ask the Brackelope guys about it. I suspect its just the way their algorithm generates trees. Consider these results from the Shorty's Annual: http://live.brackelope.com/t/exdcs/Hilton wrote:One thing I still can't figure out is how it decides who plays who >> for example there were 23? people who played but it looks like only 14 played in round 1? Along these lines, I won my first game in round 1 and then I went on to play Ian on a second game even through he had not played a first game. With a double elimination format this seems to put some people at a disadvantage.
Agree! That's one of my biggest complaints, for both players (when can I take a smoke? gets asked of me a lot) and directors (can't find players and have to yell all over the bar to find people, which is not fun).Hilton wrote:My only rec from last night is that there was a bit too much waiting around vs. playing.
I'll be honest with you: I don't like elimination tourneys. It's a most annoying thing to drive 2 hours through Chicago rush hour traffic (or Milwaukee's growing traffic problem for that matter) to show up at a tournament, get eliminated in the first round and drive all the way back, which has happened to me about 3-4 times. I don't want to put anyone else through that kind of experience. I'm pleased that Michelle and I we were able to provide you and Ken a better experience on Wednesday than I've received at the monthly tournaments in Chicago.
When we first started doing the tournaments in June this year, I didn't have confidence in how to run a round-robin IFPA tournament to my satisfaction (I stuck with what worked down in Chicago - Enchanted and Gameworks use Brackelope - "can't get fired for buying IBM"), but I've built up experience with round-robin in the last few months and have a spreadsheet that works pretty well for running things in LibreOffice Calc. New tooling = new options. My experience has shown that its considerably more fun, and completes in a similar, if not shorter, timeframe.
I'm planning a meeting with Michelle in the next month to talk about efforts for Jan - June next year, and that will be on the agenda.
--------------------------------------
I've been reading resources that talk about tournament management and directing decisions, especially for single-elimination, single-round tournaments. The PAPA website has very little - it's mostly about running PAPA circuit events. David Sirlin's Playing to Win book (http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/), which was written with Super Street Fighter II Turbo and the Evolution fighting series in mind, has been helpful, especially with his critiques of Olympic tennis bracket seeding.
